Meldung • Board Game Arena

#65240: "Highlight last move in turn based mode"

rejected: Die Entwickler denken, dass es keine gute Idee ist, oder dass das Verhältnis von Aufwand zu Nutzen zu hoch ist

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Fractal #270843092

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28. May 2022 21:14 • NoRSfall • Dieser Vorschlag wurde von den Entwicklern noch nicht untersucht:

28. May 2022 22:48 • MarkSteere • Die Entwickler denken, dass es keine gute Idee ist, oder dass das Verhältnis von Aufwand zu Nutzen zu hoch ist:

A last move indicator in Fractal would be impractical. Some of the "green" cells have more purple, yellow, or white than green. Some have small amounts of red or blue. The color value and saturation is variable. There are a variety of textures. Besides that, the small cells are only a few pixels wide, and there isn't much room for highlighting. Any type of highlighting would be indistinct.

Beyond the impracticality of move indicators in Fractal, games are supposed to be intellectually challenging. In connection games, you have to take a moment to identify the critical area (or areas) which probably, but not necessarily, relates to your opponent's last move.

I agree with statistical information being provided off to the side, like the distance to finish in Backgammon. This saves you from the thoughtless, mundane, time consuming process of counting and summing. But making the thought process a tiny bit easier by spoon feeding players with last move indicators seems misguided to me.

You have to evaluate the whole board anyway, knowing or not knowing the last move. I'm playing turn based Fractal, and it only takes me a couple seconds of evaluating the position to notice the critical zone where the last move was most likely made.

Installing a last move indicator is the most frequent request I get. And I do recognize argument in favor of them. Players are used to having them. They give a feeling of presence and engagement.

But considering the overall cost and benefit, I just don't like last move indicators. Whatever value may be afforded by them doesn't justify adding potentially confusing (when used in combination with next move indicators), unsightly visual clutter directly onto the playing area. At least not to me. I don't even want last move indicators as an option. Spoiling the visual aesthetic with something that's non-essential, unnecessary, and ultimately not very useful or helpful is not an option in my game programs.

4. Jun 2022 16:53 • Wentu • Die Entwickler denken, dass es keine gute Idee ist, oder dass das Verhältnis von Aufwand zu Nutzen zu hoch ist:

I also totally agree that a last move outline would greatly improve the game experience. maybe not all people want to savour strategic games the same way you do. I don't understand what is your reply about for the impracticality of last move indicator. Can't you just add a solid green or red or whatever to the shape of the cell of the last move? It doesn't need to be a very thick border but it would help, especially if my last move was two days ago and i cant remember what was happening.

I also find the beautiful background images to be a total distraction. I would give a chance to play with good old red-blue colours and you can direct people to a site to show the images in a better way. I accept the fact that some people can appreciate cows while playing a game but that's not true for everyone.

Another thing is: I didn't find an option to help understand the coordinate systems.

Would it also be possible to have a zoom functions? (I couldn't find it) It is hard to click on the smaller cells.
If it is not possible, then i would add an optional confirmation button because the possibility of a misclick here is amazingly high.

4. Jun 2022 19:26 • MarkSteere • Die Entwickler denken, dass es keine gute Idee ist, oder dass das Verhältnis von Aufwand zu Nutzen zu hoch ist:

I added last move indicators to Cephalopod, Oust and Redstone. But for reasons I explained in detail above, no, I can't add a "solid green or red or whatever" outline to the cells in Fractal.

Every game here has a designer, an artist, and a developer. For my games, I am all three. The artwork you see is how I chose to represent Fractal. I've received a lot of compliments on the artwork. Yours is the first complaint. If I had to change a game's artwork every time someone didn't like it, it would never end.

Part of playing board games is focusing and tuning out distractions. It's hard for me to imagine how little tiny cows on some of the large tiles would be a "total distraction". But if they are, your opponent has the same distraction you have. So it's a fair game.

There is no coordinate system, except for the arcane, arbitrary cell numbering system I used in the program. Finely scaled coordinates outside the board wouldn't extend to the tiny cells in the middle. User coordinates wouldn't be practical. For simple connection games like Fractal though, coordinates and last move indicators aren't really necessary, as I also explained in detail above.

File Fractal under "It is what it is." No other game site has Fractal, so if you want to play it, you'll have to accept it as it is here. Actually, another site did add Fractal recently, which I reference on my website. But it's nowhere near as fully featured as Board Game Arena.

I have no idea how to install a zoom function, but It sounds ominously like work. Fortunately, your cellphone already has a zoom function, and the board is big enough on a computer monitor to accommodate accurate mouse clicks.

I dislike confirm buttons. So that also won't be happening.

I put a lot of work into Fractal. Much more than my other programs, both in the artwork and the coding. Now I'm done. Unless there's something really pressing, I won't be returning to Fractal.

10. Sep 2022 00:38 • Desperis • Die Entwickler denken, dass es keine gute Idee ist, oder dass das Verhältnis von Aufwand zu Nutzen zu hoch ist:

I agree about the idea of a last move indicator and a confirmation button. Your arguments, apart for you not willing to put more work which you are completely entitled to, are not really relevant in my opinion. Most players like and use a last move indicator in all kind of abstract games because it allows them to focus on the immediate threats and consequences of the last move BEFORE considering the wole game position and wheher to play elsewhere or not. That's something that everyone does because that's just the way our brains work and classify information and it's inherent to playing over the board. Now when you have dozens of turnbased games, not having an easy access to this information can turn to a considerable amount of wasted mental energy and it's pretty annoying...

10. Sep 2022 02:38 • MarkSteere • Die Entwickler denken, dass es keine gute Idee ist, oder dass das Verhältnis von Aufwand zu Nutzen zu hoch ist:

These points were argued exhaustively three months ago. Even if I suddenly found them persuasive, which I don't, I've moved on. Now I'm programming my latest game, Diablo (www.marksteeregames.com/Diablo_rules.pdf). There's no way I'm sidelining that to revisit Fractal. I don't even want to revisit the argument, much less the program.

Thanks for voicing your opinion though.

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#65240: "Highlight last move in turn based mode"

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